Tornado Sirens for The City of Houston

[Cleanupman]

I have been on this forum for many years and have found it to be informative. I just wanted to know what you all thought of tornado sirens in Houston. Harris county has the highest number of tornadoes of any county in the state of Texas and we have had an F-4 some years ago. So during storm event s and tropical events do you think it would be good to have an outdoor warning system? Think if that same Type of F-4 tornado danced down I 45 during rush hour.

[wxdata]

Anything above a F3 are very rare here. Mostly F0-F2's and they're very short-lived. On many occasions by the time the warning has been issued, the tornado has already dissipated or will soon do so.

[wxman57]

I agree, very low risk event. A chemical spill or explosion would be a far greater risk here. As large as Houston is, it would be a very big expense to outfit the entire city with sirens. It would probably be much cheaper to buy every household a weather radio, not that I'm advocating such a thing in these times of tight city budgets. Sirens are more practical and much cheaper in very small cities.

[Poltracker]

My neighborhood does have sirens. They are generally for chemical emergencies, but are used for weather occassionally. The only problem is, I rarely ever hear them when they are tested on the first Thurs. of the month. My area also has a reverse 911 system and that is alot more effective and informative.

[cisa]

My son works at a church is Tx City and said the first time the alarm went off for a drill, he was halfway out then door in a panic before the church secretary told him, "oh yeah, they do that once a month."

[Cleanupman]

I appreciate the opinions that were expressed, i know we never have thought of Houston as a city with Tornadoes because usually they are small and short lived but the statistics show other wise. We truly do have greater risks than the occasional tornado that might spin our way but we also went 25 years between hurricanes and that became a reality a couple years ago, does it take a disaster to recognize need? Check the stats just type tornadoes in houston on google and you might be as surprised as i was.

[wxman57]

Make sure you examine confirmed tornadoes vs. tornadoes indicated by Doppler radar. We tend to get mostly small, weak and short-lived tornadoes down here. By the time a siren would go off for a tornado on the ground the tornado would be long gone in most cases. And if you're just looking at rotation on Doppler radar then there may be a lot of false alarms. With size of Houston, the expense would be enormous. Way cheaper to buy every citizen of Houston a weather radio (but, again, I don't advocate that - people can buy their own radios).

[texaskaz]

From 1977-80 I went to school at the old HSPVA downtown. Every, or many Fridays at noon they would blow the civil defense siren.
I wonder if they still do that or if it still exists?

[vbhoutex]

From 1977-80 I went to school at the old HSPVA downtown. Every, or many Fridays at noon they would blow the civil defense siren.
I wonder if they still do that or if it still exists?

I believe those were dismantled sometime in the mid 80's. I could be incorrect on the time, but they are definitely no longer in existence.
I came to Houston in 1969 and the first time I heard those I freaked since I figured we were being attacked. That is called being a product of the 50's and the Cold War. My new college friends explained what they were to me after they got up off the ground from laughing so hard.

[Krisnotes]

A few years back on a Mother's Day there was a tornado in Oyster Creek (I'm in Freeport), and DOW Chemical blasted a siren. It was pretty creepy. We already knew of the tornado because the warning was already over the television. That was a really ugly sky that day.

[wxman666]

I am so glad someone else is on the same page as I am. This is a topic I have battled for years with Houston and have studied the statistics on Harris county tornadoes as well. Between 1950 and 2009 Harris county had 235 confirmed tornadoes, with an array of strong tornadoes including some on the scale of F-3 and F-4. This is more than 2.5x more than Dallas county's number of tornadoes in the same time frame which was around 85/86 confirmed tornadoes...with the same number of, or fewer strong tornadoes than Harris county received. Yet Dallas county maintains and operates 90 new, redesigned and louder sirens, each of which has the capability of being heard clearly for about a 10 mile radius. Some of the new sirens can also run on backup power should their power be cut during a storm. It is also interesting to note that Dallas is the second largest city in TX and is going through the same budget problems Houston is, yet they keep funds supporting a great public safety system because it is a top priority. In fact, recreation was the first budget to get cut in Dallas and public safety was the last. In Houston, it was exactly the opposite effect. We claim we don't have money for these things, yet we spend millions of dollars on things like more stadiums, master planned communities, more shopping centers, and more recreational centers...it all boils down to what Houston's priorities are. It infuriates me so much and it is because of all this that I cannot stand to live here anymore and I plan to move back to my hometown of Dallas. A study was done in 2007, and reported by the Houston Chronicle that if an EF-4 tornado hit Houston in the middle of rush hour, as many as 28,000 people could die. This is because there is no warning system, and everyone would be stuck in gridlock on the major freeways. This would be 4x the number of fatalities that occurred with the 1900 hurricane...which to this date is still the worst US natural disaster. This study was done by a team of research professionals, scientists, and expert meteorologists. Consider another thing, when phone lines are down and power is out, reverse 911 and TV's aren't going to do squat. And you'll be stuck in the dark unbeknownst as to where the tornado is progressively moving to. The fact of the matter is not that we can't afford it, it's that Houston council doesn't want to pay for it because it's not really a top priority to them. Because of this complacency both by many of our citizens, and our city council, we are taking a major risk and a lot of lives are at stake. The bottom line....we are not immune to tornadoes or strong, violent tornadoes...I can garuntee the same complacency goes on in OK. People are naturally wanting to think nothing bad could ever happen to them...and I understand that, but it's dangerous thinking. I do have links to some of the information I have provided here, including the tornadic statistics. I will be happy to dig them up again if need be.

[wxman666]

Just wanted to correct my numbers on the tornado statistics. Sorry, it had been awhile since I looked at them. Harris County: 213. Dallas county: 83.

Here is the link to the statistics....http://www.weather.com/outlook/weather- ... 2010-03-25

Here is the Houston chronicle study.....http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4564928.html

[Ptarmigan]

Just wanted to correct my numbers on the tornado statistics. Sorry, it had been awhile since I looked at them. Harris County: 213. Dallas county: 83.

Here is the link to the statistics....http://www.weather.com/outlook/weather- ... 2010-03-25

Here is the Houston chronicle study.....http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4564928.html

It is interesting to note that Harris County has more recorded tornadoes than Dallas County, which is near "Tornado Alley". Harris County tornadoes are often small and some are from waterspouts or hurricanes. Also, the high humidity is less conducive to strong tornadoes, like you see in Tornado Alley. November 1992 Tornado Outbreak was an exception.

[wxman666]

Just wanted to correct my numbers on the tornado statistics. Sorry, it had been awhile since I looked at them. Harris County: 213. Dallas county: 83.

Here is the link to the statistics....http://www.weather.com/outlook/weather- ... 2010-03-25

Here is the Houston chronicle study.....http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4564928.html

It is interesting to note that Harris County has more recorded tornadoes than Dallas County, which is near "Tornado Alley". Harris County tornadoes are often small and some are from waterspouts or hurricanes. Also, the high humidity is less conducive to strong tornadoes, like you see in Tornado Alley. November 1992 Tornado Outbreak was an exception.

Much of the same can be said about Dallas. It is rare that strong tornadoes hit up there too. Down here, there was also another outbreak in November of 2003. 32 tornadoes were reported between 9 AM and 6 PM on November 17,2003, with several F-2. One F-2 that hit the Sugar Land area caused over 50 injuries if I remember correctly.

[Poltracker]

Wxman57 had a point, the tornados around here are short lived. By the time a spotter reported it, the OEM confirmed it, and the siren was sounded...it would be all over. My community HAS sirens and they have sounded them for tornadoes, always too late. If the sirens did not have another purpose, chemical emergencies, they would be a waste of money. Our sirens also have anouncers so at least you know what the problem is (if you hear it in the first place). It is amazing what soundproofing your home and other assorted noise can block out.

[wxman666]

The data keeps proving otherwise. All you have to do is take the time to read these links I am posting or do the research. There are a lot of instances where the tornadoes are short lived, but remember only 1% of tornadoes anywhere are long track, killer tornadoes, but that doesn't mean they're not dangerous or deadly. Having no means of warning is just not good thinking, at least for us here on the western side of Harris county. It's not a waste of money either because many people have been seriously injured here in Houston because of tornadoes and several have died. The data between here and North TX is no different fatality wise and in some cases, worse. Dallas has never had an F-5 and has 2x less tornadoes, yet they felt a warning system was important enough. The problem down here is people are getting complacent with the issue. And sure, there will be people opposed but the longer we keep this up, the more people will get hurt or killed. This is bad strategy on Houston's part. Personally, I don't want to be here when the big storm actually hits because I know that it'll be a disaster should that happen. I'd rather be somewhere that actually thinks through these things and considers safety and lives valuable enough to spend the money on these things. With all that said, I present to you, more data and statistics....and I've yet to see someone else make a fact based argument with actual data on this forum showing statistics against these official numbers. Some of these come straight from the NWS office of Houston/Galveston.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/hgx/?n=severe_events_november

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_1 ... o_outbreak

[wxman57]

It's not uncommon for coastal counties/parishes to have quite a few tornadoes, as compared to a place well inland such as Dallas. The reason is that we're close to a large body of water and tend to get many reports of weak "tropical funnels". It's rare that we see a tornado on the ground for any length of time down here. They touch down and they're gone a very high percentage of the time. Or the warnings are for Doppler-indicated rotation and no tornado is ever confirmed to have touched down.

Now the Dallas area tends to get supercells with strong, long-lived tornadoes. There's a much higher risk of a strong tornado in Dallas than in Houston. That's not to say we haven't had a few larger tornadoes here. I was actually out on my bike near Stephen F. Austin state park when the November 1992 tornadoes passed. I actually had to take cover in a barn east of Sealy and could hear one going by.

But Harris County is so huge that the expense for a tornado siren network would be cost-prohibitive. We just don't have the money for something that may prove of such little value down here. If we DID have extra money, then a far cheaper solution would be to buy the 3-4 million inhabitants a weather radio for each household. That's how costly a siren system would be. I don't think the government shoud do this with our tax money, though. Best solution would be for each household to buy a weather radio and keep it on.

[Poltracker]

The data keeps proving otherwise. All you have to do is take the time to read these links I am posting or do the research. There are a lot of instances where the tornadoes are short lived, but remember only 1% of tornadoes anywhere are long track, killer tornadoes, but that doesn't mean they're not dangerous or deadly. Having no means of warning is just not good thinking, at least for us here on the western side of Harris county. It's not a waste of money either because many people have been seriously injured here in Houston because of tornadoes and several have died. The data between here and North TX is no different fatality wise and in some cases, worse. Dallas has never had an F-5 and has 2x less tornadoes, yet they felt a warning system was important enough. The problem down here is people are getting complacent with the issue. And sure, there will be people opposed but the longer we keep this up, the more people will get hurt or killed. This is bad strategy on Houston's part. Personally, I don't want to be here when the big storm actually hits because I know that it'll be a disaster should that happen. I'd rather be somewhere that actually thinks through these things and considers safety and lives valuable enough to spend the money on these things. With all that said, I present to you, more data and statistics....and I've yet to see someone else make a fact based argument with actual data on this forum showing statistics against these official numbers. Some of these come straight from the NWS office of Houston/Galveston.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/hgx/?n=severe_events_november

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_1 ... o_outbreak

Actually, your data does not prove otherwise. No one is arguing the number of tornadoes that have occurred. The argument is that a siren warning system would be expensive and in the end, ineffective. Harris Co. generally gets weak, short lived tornadoes. The sirens would be ineffective because, in most cases, they would not be sounded until after the tornado is over. This would not give the warning that you insist is needed. They would also be ineffective in that the sirens would have no effect on property damage and very little to no effect on fatalities. From 1950 to 1995 only 10 people were killed in Harris County as a result of a tornado. While this is sad, a great many more people die in car wrecks or by violence every year. For that matter, more folks have died in Harris County (and the state of Texas) as a result of floods than from tornadoes and the property damage totals are also much higher. The cost of a siren system could not be justified under these circumstances, the statistics just do not favor it. Dallas has different weather patterns than Houston, their siren system may be justifiable for them, I do not believe it is justifiable here.

[sanantoniogirl85]

I lived in Houston all of my life, and I heard things about Tornadoes passing by the city and I have seen it from a far distance as a child, but it's only a matter of time b4 the tornado season occurs again and I saw this article that one day Houston will get hit by a major tornado. Here's where I read it from: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4564928.html I am not even sure if there is any tornado sirens for the city itself.

[wxman57]

It would be impractical and quite expensive to install a siren system that could cover all of Houston. Such sirens work well for small towns that are close to Tornado Alley, but not for major sprawling cities that only rarely get a longer-track deadly tornado. A Houston resident probably has a greater chance of being killed by a car crashing through his house than from a tornado. I'd rather my tax dollars be spent elsewhere (police, fire, road maintenance) and leave it up to individuals to monitor the local weather via a weather radio with alerts.